Unless there is someone i cant see, there they no no more legal than the $50 ebay kits, You are only fitting part of the kit from what i can see, for it to be legal you would need complete headlights with a self leveling system
Quote:
Halogen lamps and their globes must comply with ADRs 46 and 51, while HID lamps and their globes must comply with a different set of requirements within ADRs 77 and 78. Interchanging globe types (such as putting HID globes into a lamp designed for a halogen globe) prevents continued compliance of the lamp/globe assembly.
In addition, ADR 13 requires that all vehicles fitted with headlamps (including HID) producing over 2,000 lumens (a measure of light output) have a self-levelling system and headlight washers. These simple retro conversions don’t provide these features and are therefore illegal for road use and are likely to be excessively glary to other road users.
Most research shows that HID's generally produce in excess of 3000 Lumens
...mate to be perfectly honest , i have no f&%king idea what all that 'ADR" stuff you have quoted ,means at all...? thank god !!
nor..i would assume ,does the boys in blue that HAVE been giving me grief , over the last few months with my 147... ON THE STREET.
i did have A/M hids to foggies / low beam / high beam .fitted into gs300 glass lights ! THESE have now been replaced with what you see here . all genuine toyota / lexus units.!! and guess what..........
no more hassles at all..... BUT ...they still check me out from time to time...
for me....ignorance is bliss . not saying this would work in all areas..? it works for me.
fact is a lot of the law/ boys in blue "on the streets" really struggle with these jzs147,s they dont really know anything about them..! and this is the only reason i still have one.....
i take it what you have quoted is from some sort of book or rules..? if so....i am in trouble, or the car is !
but...point taken and will change my write up a tad...!!
The ballast makes very little difference to the light output and the cops will not know the difference between those and AM kits - Unless th coppers were looking at the actual ballasts.
These however would be perfect if you want a very reliable setup as the china stuff can be crap.
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 4010 Location: Perth, WA
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:09 am Post subject:
If you team them up with glass headlights you can point to the (albeit non operational) self-levelling system, and the Toyota stickers on the ballasts and probably get away with it though.. _________________
1994 Black JZS147 Aristo - RIP. Went swimming
New 1992 Aristo Project
If you team them up with glass headlights you can point to the (albeit non operational) self-levelling system, and the Toyota stickers on the ballasts and probably get away with it though..
Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 3441 Location: Melbourne Australia
Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:54 pm Post subject:
The Australian GS300 spec JZS160 has a washer unit on the bumper. How this really makes a difference, I have no idea? Keeping the dam things clean with car shampoo and a cloth would be fine in my opinion and the Japanese govt. This is the only thing I am concerned about with importing my car, although, I have seen cars that pass with no problem? I could be wrong, but I think the Chaser has factory HID's?
Anyway, Rusty, that's what that ADR doc is talking about.
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 4010 Location: Perth, WA
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:23 am Post subject:
Interesting...
I knew Volvo's had em
But thought there's only a few cars with them these days... and most new cars run HIDs or some form of high-lumen projectors I thought. Maybe they've just gotten good at disguising the look of the washer jets... never knew they were an ADR requirement. Might have a look at some new bimmers etc and see if I can spot them.. _________________
1994 Black JZS147 Aristo - RIP. Went swimming
New 1992 Aristo Project
well.....you cannot miss the h/light washers on a UK GS300 mate.....
they ARE huge suckers , that sit obviously on the frt bar and look up at the h/lights (twin jet squirt too ! )
and i am told bloke......these H/LIGHTS are D.O.T. approved units..? what ever the f*&k that means...?
i suppose that's why a lot of blokes in "europe"....are buying them for their jzs147..?
rules over there ( apparently )ARE a lot more involved than here... and the blokes there are having a lot of trouble with the COLD weather with a 147 stock plastic lights..? nick
All HID equipped cars must have the following -
Auto Levelling.
Auto Cleaning - Either wipers or water jets.
Projector Lenses.
Auto cleaning is so that there isn't the possibility of beam diffusion/deflection due to the dirt on the glass/plastic and deflecting the beam onto incoming traffic.
A lot of the newer cars have pop up jets that are hidden within the bumper that are only visible when required.
.....and that's supposed to keep the headlight faces "clean" so the projector beam does not get defused though...."dirty" faces...? ...yes...?
who the hell thinks up these rules bloke...... i want HIS job...! or my grand son can do it..!
jesus.....the world is going down the shit shoot mate..............quickly....
so where do the "rules" sit....with our jzs147 perspex lights that are ALL sun cracked / yellow / faded to hell.....and only have about 40% clear vision left in em...
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 4010 Location: Perth, WA
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject:
They are 100% legal mate... don't you understand anything??
Geez
They're stock so they must be OK! Even though the light coming out of them is being scattered everywhere by the microcracks in the plastic, that's Fine.
But ohnoee those glass ones.. must be automatically cleaned by laser-guided robots or they're DANGEROUS and cause LITTLE KIDS TO DIE.
Think of the little kids !! Say NO to glass headlights!
_________________
1994 Black JZS147 Aristo - RIP. Went swimming
New 1992 Aristo Project
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 4010 Location: Perth, WA
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject:
But what's the difference?
They're overly worried about the tiniest amount of light refraction with HID's, but not with halogens??
Doesn't make sense.
Lets say your HID's are 2x the output of halogens.
Say you had a horrible 10% light refraction of your HID's.. that's still less than the 40% refraction you're getting from your halogen projectors, but the first is illegal (assuming it's coming from dirty glass) and the other would not be (assuming it's coming from 20yr old plastic).
Theoretical scenario, but the point still stands.
No reason they can't just do it the way they police emissions/noise/etc and 'test it' and see if it's within bounds. You can stick a lightmeter at a certain angle or whatever above the headlight and test the light ouput, then if it's within regs it's fine. No reason to absolutely require auto-cleaning and auto-levelling etc etc when you're going to get much worse light refraction from old reflective housings/etc with halogens than you are from HID's, let alone the dickheads driving around with their high beams on. _________________
1994 Black JZS147 Aristo - RIP. Went swimming
New 1992 Aristo Project
Quote
Australian Design Rule 13/00 – Installation of Lighting and Light Signalling Devices on other than L-Group Vehicles
6.2.9. Other requirements
The requirements of paragraph 5.5.2. shall not apply to dipped-beam headlamps. Dipped-beam headlamps shall not swivel according to the angle of lock of steering. Dipped-beam headlamps with gas-discharge light sources shall only be permitted in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45. In addition, with respect to vertical inclination, the provision of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. shall not be applied when these headlamps are installed.
Paragraph 5.5.2 basically says that if a fitting won't work just by fitting a globe, it's not considered a light. (Ie optional driving lights that aren't fitted aren't lights etc).
And regarding 6.2.6.2.2...
Quote
6.2.6.2.2. However, devices which are adjusted manually, either continuously or non- continuously, shall be permitted, provided they have a stop positon at which the lamps can be returned to the initial inclination defined in paragraph 6.2.6.1.1. by means of the usual adjusting screws or similar means.
These manually adjustable devices must be operable from the driver's seat.
Continually adjustable devices must have reference makes indicating the loading conditions that require adjustment of the dipped-beam.
The number of positions on devices which are not continuously adjustable must be such as to ensure compliance with the range of values prescribed in paragraph 6.2.6.1.2. in all the loading conditions defined in Annex 5.
For these devices also, the loading conditions of Annex 5 that require adjustment of the dipped-beam shall be clearly marked near the control of the device (see Annex .
So according to 6.2.9, the part of clause 6.2.6.2.2 that states manual adjustment is permitted, is NOT permitted in the case of HID fitment, ie, manual adjustment isn't allowed. So that means you need to comply with the previous clause, which is shown below:
Quote
6.2.6.2.1. In the case where a headlamp levelling device is necessary to satisfy the requirements of paragraphs 6.2.6.1.1. and 6.2.6.1.2., the device shall be automatic.
Therefore, automatic self levelling is required. (the two paragraphs mentioned refer to the actual specifications for beam angle etc).
But what about ADR 45?, well that refers mainly to signal lamps, but it does outline the colour variations permitted for lighting. I haven't converted the numbers to easy to understand form, but basically, white has to be white, not blue, yellow or purple. Ie 10,000K HID's are illegal.
Quote
Australian Design Rule 45/01 – Lighting and Light Signalling Devices not Covered by ECE Regulations
45.2. GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
45.2.1. Lamps shall be so designed and constructed that in normal use, despite the vibrations to which they may then be subjected, they continue to function satisfactorily and retain the characteristics prescribed by this Rule.
45.2.2. The colour of the light emitted shall be within the limits of the co-ordinates prescribed in Clause 45.2.2.1 for the colour in question.
45.2.2.1. Colours of Lamps- Trichromatic Co-ordinates
Photometric blah blah stuff.... Just keep it white (ie under 6500K).
Then we get to the gas discharge specific ADR's.....
Quote
Australian Design Rule 75/00 - Headlamp Cleaners
6 GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
6.1 The headlamp cleaner shall be designed and constructed to clean those parts of the light-emitting surface of the headlamp which distribute the passing beam and the driving beam so that at least the cleaning effect specified in paragraph 7 below is achieved.
6.2 The headlamp cleaner shall be furthermore so designed that:
6.2.1 When parts of the headlamp cleaner in the rest position(s) are on the headlamps' illuminating surface, the photometric values of the headlamps, .... blah blah, not more than a 5% reduction in light output.....
6.2.1.1 Paragraph 6.2.1. is not applicable when the headlamp and the parts of the headlamp cleaner referred to in paragraph 6.2.1. form a complete assembly during the approval of the headland;
6.2.2 During operation, except in the rest position, the mechanical parts shall not cover more than:
6.2.2.1 20 % of the illuminating surface of a passing lamp,
6.2.2.2 10 % of the illuminating surface of a driving lamp with no high beam.
6.2.3 It is able to operate at all temperatures between -10 degrees C and +35 degrees C and to operate satisfactorily at speeds between 0 and 130 km/h (or the maximum speed of the vehicle if it is below 130 km/h); .......... the cleaner shall remain undamaged if exposed to a temperature of -35 degrees C and of +80 degrees C respectively for a period of one hour;
6.2.4 In normal use, in spite of the vibration to which it may be subjected, its satisfactory operation continues to be ensured;
6.2.5 It will not be functionally damaged due to water, ice or snow accumulating on it during normal operation of the vehicle, even if the cleaning liquid is frozen; a temporary failure due to freezing or deposit of snow shall not be considered as damage, provided that the device can be made to work again by simple means;
6.2.6 Elements which may come into contact with the cleaning fluid must be resistant against a mixture consisting of 50 % methyl alcohol, ethyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol and 50 % water;
6.2.7 Its parts do not hinder the adjustment of the headlamps or the inserting or changing of filament lamps; if necessary, the cleaner or parts of it may be detachable, if they can be removed with simple tools.
6.3 Parts of the headlamp cleaner which, in the rest position(s) and/or during operation, form part of the external surface of the vehicle, shall meet the following requirements:
6.3.x. goes on to basically state that there are to be no no sharp or pointy parts, like bonnet scoops but scaled down..... Have a read for the details.
Quote
6.5 In case of approval of a vehicle the following requirements shall also be met:
6.5.1 Cleaning of all passing (high beam) headlamps shall be compulsory. If there are more than two driving headlamps, the cleaning of one pair of these headlamps shall be sufficient;
6.5.2 If the cleaner has a fluid container this may be combined with the fluid container for the windscreen washers and the rear window washer.......
ADR 77 states the following items of interest:
Quote
Australian Design Rule 77/00 - Gas Discharge Headlamps
6.1.1 Headlamps shall be so made that with suitable gas-discharge light source they give adequate illuminance without dazzle when emitting the passing beam, and good illumination when emitting the driving beam.
6.1.6 The trichromatic coordinates of the light of the beams emitted by headlamps using gas- discharge light sources must be in the following boundaries:
limit towards:
blue: x > 0.310
yellow: x < 0.500
green: y < 0.150 + 0.640x
green: y < 0.440
purple: y > 0.050 + 0.750x
red: y > 0.382
6.2.1 The passing beam must produce a sufficiently sharp "cut-off" to permit a satisfactory adjustment with it's aid. The "cut-off" must be a horizontal straight line on the side opposite to the direction of traffic for which the headlamp is intended: on the other side .....(it can't be too high or low)...... A cut-off extending above a combination of these lines shall in no circumstances be permitted.
6.2.2.1 .....in the case of headlamps designed to meet the requirements of left-hand traffic, the "cut-off" on the right-half of the screen is horizontal.....
So dazzle and light spill above the horizontal (slightly higher on the passenger side) is a no go.
(If anyone can convert those trichromatic coordinates to a more 'real world' figure, I love you long time....)
Quote
6.2.5 Only one gas-discharge light source is permitted for each passing beam headlamp.
So no doubling up of HID globes in your headlights. Levelling is taken care of in ADR 13 above. ('aint the labrynth of ADR's wonderful??)
And ADR 78 basically goes into the specifics of globe design, specifics on the arc discharge (shape, photometrics etc) but I wouldn't worry too much about that, as long as you dont have blue or purple HID's.
Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 4010 Location: Perth, WA
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject:
*eyes glaze over*
wha?
I'm not arguing whether they are or are not legal, I'm saying they SHOULD be.
The ADR's clearly state certain things apply to "gas-discharge light sources" that don't apply to other types of light sources. My point is, in effect, that there is no justifiable reason for singleing them out and having different laws purely due to the method the bulb creates light. _________________
1994 Black JZS147 Aristo - RIP. Went swimming
New 1992 Aristo Project
Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 3441 Location: Melbourne Australia
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject:
What I think is stupid is that HID's are quite fine in Japan (it does snow here too) without washer units, but seem to be required according to ADR. Anyway, we will take a punt and see what happens when I get my car home? The GS300 washers on the bumper seriously look like an afterthought (pretty much are) and just look POS.
its not the method of the globe creating the light
That isnt the whole adr book there only a VERY small section, i think these rules apply to any light over 2000 lumens, any light source on a car over 2000 lumens needs to be self leveling, unsure about the self cleaning though but assume its the same
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
...mate to be perfectly honest , i have no f&%king idea what all that 'ADR" stuff you have quoted ,means at all...? thank god !!
ON THE STREET.
BUT ...they still check me out from time to time... 
not saying this would work in all areas..? it works for me.
i want HIS job...! or my grand son can do it..!
